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2008 Election | |||
| » POSTED BY : tgbob |
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| » TOPIC CREATED : 11/5/2008 6:00:00 PM | ||||
Silly Emo...
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| » POSTED BY : Strike & Co. |
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| » REPLIED ON : 11/4/2008 1:59:40 PM | ||||
I keep wanting to vote for the Libertarian party, but they keep being too extreme on Important Issues (like this year, "drugs should be decriminalized").
So, why shouldn't I vote for McCain? He may be more financially liberal than I'd like, but I agree with TGB that moral issues are the most important. If you don't know right from wrong, how can I trust you to lead?
It's not a pure litmus test--I think G-dub got a *lot* of things wrong, like the Patriot Act, the War on Terrorism, No Child Left Behind--but I think that in the long run our country's morality is more important than our level of global influence.
Besides, I grew up dirt-poor and then I was in Boy Scouts, so I have the illusion that I and my family will be able to survive if the economy tanks... so I wish they'd hurry up and let the market correct itself. The longer we put things off, the worse they'll end up being, IMO.
I've agreed with McCain on a lot of issues, and I've disagreed with him on a lot of issues, but I really respect and appreciate the fact that he doesn't make choices based on what his party wants.
...and I think I've lost my train of thought, so I'll shut up for now.
Rule #1: There are always exceptions to the rules.
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| » POSTED BY : DougEFresh316 |
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| » REPLIED ON : 11/5/2008 10:12:56 AM | ||||
After watching all of last night's results and festivities, it is clear that this country is changing. This race wasn't even close. My prediction of 320 Electoral votes was shattered...
To the "inner person" reflection comment(s), we finally saw John McCain's inner person last night in his concession speech. He was heartfelt, sincere and acknowledged that there was a clear choice. A true class-act moment. Very reminiscent of John McCain 8 years ago. Unfortunately, he had to spend his entire concession speech diffusing the bomb of hate-mongering that collected in Phoenix; the same people who muttered racial slurs and accusations of terrorist-tendencies when McCain/Palin delivered stump speeches over the last two months.
The problem with what we saw out of McCain last night is that we saw n-o-n-e of that same John McCain during this election process. He had to sell out his personal agenda to pander to the Republican party. This was (relating to Oliver's last comment) never more apparent than when he tapped Sarah Palin as his running mate. Rather than select someone with intelligent visions, distinguished positions and experience that made McCain's primary process challenging (such as Mitt Romney or Ron Paul), he decided to select an unknown icon that completely pandered to the right-wing GOP base. Mind you that she's currently being charged with Ethics violations in her own state (much like Ted Stevens) for having her sister's ex-husband unjustly fired from a position of power.
Whether you like McCain's views or not, his picking of Sarah Palin scared away much of the fanbase on Election Day. She came off as completely uneducated, very unaware of major issues (foreign and domestic) and only spoke remotely cognizent when it came to the issue of Abortion. Her "dullard-like" image only projected a woman who said "drill, baby, drill" when it came to oil, a strong image of NON-family values (as illustrated by her own family dynamic of a pregnant 17 year old being forced to marry the baby's father 'cause her mother's running for GOP-VP), and her stubbornness to stick to Abortion rights. Point blank, whether you agree or disagree, Roe-v-Wade is going nowhere. As women are having their voices heard more and more, this issue's not going to change.
Agree or disagree w/ Barack Obama, he has an organized, structured temperment that will be able to bring together all people on most issues. That alone should make the next four years a very interesting time.
In regards to the economy tanking, I firmly believe that it will have a negative effect on all people (under the $250k line specifically). I can, however, see where Oliver's coming from, as places like the Ohio Valley will see much less of an impact given the utter lack of opportunity for those types of areas. Living in the greater Cleveland area, I can assure you that starting a family will be very difficult for me, from obtaining a home loan to starting long term investments in the stock market. I, too, grew up dirt-poor (SHS) but have had the experiences of living outside of the Ohio valley to see what the short-term effects of this have already caused.
Regarding Brady's "human life to be harmed or ungodly acts of lust to be committed" comment, I'm scratching my head as to how he's linking that line of thought to Barack Obama. That label should be cast on George W Bush instead, as it relates to his indescretions in Iraq. I'll expect to see war crime charges forthcoming.
In summation, while these are my views, this is in no means a slight or judgement on other's opinions. Rather, it's my attempt to present a differing opinion in a different location. I would gladly entertain any questions or conversations on this, as I enjoy the rhetoric and sharing of ideas and thoughts.
While I strongly wanted to write in "Stephen Colbert" for President, I voted for Barack Obama.
Take care.
"You Play to Win The Game"
Doug W
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| » POSTED BY : tgbob |
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| » REPLIED ON : 11/5/2008 11:13:04 AM | ||||
First off, I had the feeling that it would be a landslide. I've seen it building, and even though I voted McCain, I figured that this would be no contest. I'll say, it's a welcome relief from the past couple elections that just dragged on with the results, especially the 2000 Bush-Gore one which took 30 days to finalize! I'm glad it got over quickly, so people can move on.
I stayed up and watched the results and was impressed by both speeches. John McCain did bow out gracefully, and I noticed that there was no booing when Obama would mention McCain's name. Too bad that the McCain concession's participants bore such animosity towards our new President. Some of it is McCain's fault, because of adhering to party politics like you mentioned, but a lot of the blame also goes to the Republican party for creating such a negative and hate-filled campaign. I remember all the fliers I received at my house, linking Obama to William Ayers, other terrorists, ACORN, etc, and most, if not all, were from either the Ohio GOP or the national GOP organizations. For a party that is supposed to be promoting conservativism and family values, they really led a hate-filled campaign. It really disgusted me that they couldn't run a campaign based on their candidate's many merits as opposed to trashing their opponent. And the end result was evident in McCain's concession speech: the Republican Party's tactics breeded an environment of hatred and racism.
Next, just to throw this in here since it was mentioned, a couple days ago, a news article came out that Palin was cleared of those ethics violations. The story went mostly unnoticed.
But with all of that, in retrospect, Palin was not the right choice as a VP candidate. She energized the party early on, mostly because she was an exotic choice, but with the constant fumblings of speech and other things that came out, it seemed as if she was more of a hinderance than anything.
On my views of Obama, even though I disagree with a lot of his policies, I actually like the guy a good bit. He's intelligent, calm, collected, an elegant speaker, and an inspirer of hope. All of these are qualities that have been missing with Bush, and look where that got us. And yes, I also think that war crimes charges could be coming, which is just plain sad.
The whole "human life to be harmed or ungodly acts of lust" comment in reference to Obama was in regards to our differing views on abortion and gay marriage.
I hope I covered everything. I will say that yes, this will be an interesting four years we have upcoming, and I wish Obama nothing but the best of luck. I hope that he will be able to bring about the unity and change that this country so desperately needs. And I will say this: I'm glad that we can have varying viewpoints and still be civilized about this whole thing. I've viewed a lot of message boards where people get just plain mean with each other because they don't agree. In the end, we all want the same thing. A better America.
-- TG
Silly Emo...
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| » POSTED BY : DougEFresh316 |
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| » REPLIED ON : 11/5/2008 11:15:42 AM | ||||
"You Play to Win The Game"
Doug W
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| » POSTED BY : tgbob |
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| » REPLIED ON : 11/5/2008 11:40:09 AM | ||||
Silly Emo...
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| » POSTED BY : Strike & Co. |
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| » REPLIED ON : 11/5/2008 4:10:29 PM | ||||
Yeah, I probably have a double standard there. I've got four years to get myself straightened out on this before the next big election.
Talked a lot with my brother & other family members about these issues last night (while specifically not watching the election returns; I'm really glad to hear that we're not having a repeat of 2000) ...
Tim had a really hard time voting for President. He can't stand most of McCain's positions (as Tim sees them) and he abhors the thought of Palin as President if McCain should die, but he also sees the practice of abortion in the same light that he sees the Holocaust... so how could he vote for Obama?
(Roe v. Wade may be unassailable in our current culture, but there are and have been other related issues: partial-birth abortions, whether the parents of teenage girls must be informed when their child has an abortion, etc.)
Me, I intentionally heard as little as I could during the campaign season (I can't /stand/ marketing, and I expect that modern campaigns are merely marketing) so I readily admit that I voted on less information that maybe I should have, but...
I don't think either candidate has a clear understanding of how to "fix" our country's economy.
That's fine, because I also don't think our economy is broken.
I understand that the people in our country will not have the purchasing power that they're used to, and I understand that learning that will be painful, but I don't understand why that's /bad/.
However, I recognize that my understanding is also based only on my situation, which is manageable. I do have other friends whose financial situations do not appear to be manageable, so I'm trying to use their experiences to broaden my view.
On the one hand, I don't think that President Wilson's economic policies during the Depression were either helpful or appropriate, and when I hear that Obama beleives in that style of government I begin to despair.
On the other hand, many people in our society seem to be so lazy and selfish that I understand that government programs /do/ help some individuals (when their neighbors refuse to do so).
So now Obama has the reins for four years... do the Democrats also control the House or Senate for the next two years?
I believe I did my duty as a citizen this year (unlike four years ago), and that is all that is required of me. Regardless of who won, all I can do now is get on with my life, see how this plays out, and try to better understand the issues next voting season.
(Any chance we could discuss this in the forum? It's kinda hard for me to keep these long comments coherent.)
Rule #1: There are always exceptions to the rules.
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| » POSTED BY : tgbob |
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| » REPLIED ON : 11/5/2008 4:43:26 PM | ||||
Silly Emo...